Outsider Observations

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A Crew
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Outsider Observations

Post by A Crew » Mon May 08, 2017 2:16 pm

Hello everyone

First off, thanks for an awesome event and a welcoming group!
I don't think I saw a single person left out for any reason other than their own active choice.
Props go out to any and all that did their best to offer activity and rope in people who would normally let their own anxieties get the better of them.

Just a few observations and questions from someone not so settled into the current how things work.
If these have been discussed recently I'm sorry, I'm often too tired to get thoughts out there properly and wanted to throw these out while fresh in the mind.

Cluttered calls:
In big battles it was damn near impossible to make sure calls were heard, I think this is pretty much unavoidable without an ugly fudge of rules.
However: Neon shirted/otherwise obvious and distinct assistant refs in the final mission (with the bugs on Sunday) were a HUGE help to relay info and centre calls on. This was a massive help when trying to make sure that "indistinct clump of military people on the left" were aware and taking covering fire etc.
When someone 2m to your left "hidden" behind a sapling is invisible, names completely fail and a clearly name-able target is crucial.

This was a gamechanger and worth trying to find people to do it for any 10+ a side, wide area, combat imho, even if it means sacrificing a monster for.


"Guy behind the tree, Quad!" problem
Somewhat related but more an issue for fresh faces on the crew side.
While monsters have sashes and other distinguishing kit to swap in and out, players obviously have free reign on their kit and we don't want to limit this.
However in low light being clear as to who you're looking/shooting at is a problem.
I know IC camo is great and OC you don't want to be shot either but looking OC very similar in the dark lead to a few amusing responses and I'm sure a few missed calls, imho verging into meta when people try to intentionally look indistinct.

I think it would be worth going through players in kit during the brief so they can all claim an obvious visible distinguishable trait to be called by when partly obscured.
"Red beret", "Blue hat", "Ginger", "Purple" were all very useful this weekend but things fell apart when it came to things like "Redhead" hat/not and "Swat cop".
I don't think anyone wants non-pre-agreed target calls of "Tubby", "Oldie", "Shorty", "Four eyes" or any of the other seven dwarves, so players self-assigning.

On the flip side, many thanks to those that understood and took target calls such as "in return" and during a particularly close and chaotic moment of brain fart: "Dakka! Dakka! Quad!"



And now some more controversial ones...

Maxed out events and ticket fairness:
I don't know if this is as much of a sellout event every time but if it is, a first-come first-serve basis has some significant problems.
Has a system like a lottery been considered to make this less of a "who get's to their pc fastest" situation? (eg. 1 week of taking in ticket requests before drawing a random order of who gets to actually go, deposit as needed)
There are a lot of ways to manage such systems with needed groups, typically putting multiple people on a single ticket request so they either all get confirmed at once or not at all.
I would be happy to moderate this if needed.

As an added bonus this could resolve the mandatory catering and minimum numbers issue raised at the AGM:
By letting people say beforehand if they NEED catering/Don't want catering/Want catering/Need someone to bring food for them you can ensure/discard catering without limiting the options for people wanting a ticket at the offset.



Crew booking priority:
To my knowledge this is only for the immediately next event and non-transferable?
I can understand some reasons for this but there are some obvious problems here,
I would like to see defended or prompt review of if it hasn't been recently.
  1. Discarding priority after 1 event:
    If you want to attend events 1 and 3 but cannot make event 2 in any form. You really want to play event 3 but have limited incentive to attend event 1 if you can't play for the apparently arbitrary reason of not letting people keep that priority.
  2. Non-Transferable:
    I won't hide it, I'm often short on cash so I will mostly be crewing.
    I can understand not being able to necessarily give it to a fixed person but why disallow it being lottery-ed off to a group?
    eg. "people that couldn't make last event" or "New players" for whatever reason they want to see the society grow?
  3. Non-Transferrable AND must be next event:
    This one is simple to justify "Will crew if someone can get me there/sort a tent".
    Obviously you need to be sure of the necessary bits to be able to crew.
    As such would like to pass priority to someone who can enable the crewing itself.

Hope this brings some thought to points rather than being seen as a "you are wrong" post.
It was a great event this weekend, this is just thoughts on how to make the next one even better and continued thoughts from points raised at the AGM.
Last edited by A Crew on Mon May 08, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Annwfyn
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Annwfyn » Mon May 08, 2017 3:05 pm

Hello. The discount for crewing is for _your_ next event whenever that is, and is cumulative, so if you crew 4 events in a row, then miss 2, you have a £60 discount waiting for you ;)

Hope that helps.

Also, I'm probably being dim, but I think you forgot to sign your post?
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by A Crew » Mon May 08, 2017 4:03 pm

The crew discount is cumulative and that's absolutely great, but I was told and am under the impression that priority booking (ie. before the masses) only applied to the next chronological event?

If I am mistaken will remove that part.

As for signing post, no IC name for forum sig and brain shut out for signing off post, will fix now.
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Woody » Mon May 08, 2017 4:08 pm

Hi

First off as an experienced ref and long time player you are dead right battle is proper confusing. Call and shout mechanics start to fall apart above about 8 people a side and experienced and present battle refs are a must on any large scale linear. I didn't see the first large linear Sunday so can't comment on that one but the second one having those extra few people is a huge bonus for sure.

On the players ID side of things the problem is that kit can change through an event I myself have gone through 3 different outfits in one event at stargate. We try and have the pre brief to have introductions to help folks recall names. For myself just n hearing a name the once isn't enough for me but it does mean if later I hear someone name a target it helps to drill that name just a little bit further in.

For the next section of answers I will point out I am one half of the new secretary/treasurer duo here and am stating my personal opinion on a matter I have yet to have a full handover from the previous position holder (its only been 24 hours after all since agreeing to do the job) so please please please don't take this as anything other than my personal thoughts.

The AGM event is often sold out for a variety of reasons I am not in a position to say which proportion of recent events have been a sell out. I do not believe the society has ever used a lottery style for its ticket purchasing.Whilst I can see its advantage in some aspects it has issues of its own. At this time I would not be looking to change the booking but I can consult with event runners etc and see what they think as there is no prescribed way as far as I am aware.

On crew priority again there is nothing specified in the constitution around HOW this works. It is generally at the discretion of the event refs to give priority booking to the crew of the previous game and has become the "done thing". I think I am reading your comments the way they are intended but if not please correct me

In principle deferred priority I could see working but it would be on an event by event basis at this time and the secretary (me) would need to do a little more paperwork.

What I would prefer is that deferment is by exceptional circumstance rather than the norm myself and limiting to a single deferment of a single event wouldn't add in a huge extra workload. Which is option 1 if I understand correctly

Making it transferable. The idea is that YOU have given the effort in it is your reward to claim not for handing off to another person. I personally would be against that option. Which is your option 2 yes?

Option 3 is I believe the current situation with regards priority booking

THanks for your thoughts I understand that you have not signed the post and used A Crew to remain anonymous if you would like to discuss further please feel free and if you wish to reveal yourself privately please feel free also.
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Woody » Mon May 08, 2017 4:11 pm

A Crew wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 4:03 pm
The crew discount is cumulative and that's absolutely great, but I was told and am under the impression that priority booking (ie. before the masses) only applied to the next chronological event?

If I am mistaken will remove that part.

As for signing post, no IC name for forum sig and brain shut out for signing off post, will fix now.
I am under the same impression hence the long post I wrote to try and set out my understanding now you have gone and edited stuff and I have to go read again in case I missed anything :D
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Annwfyn » Mon May 08, 2017 4:14 pm

As outgoing president, and two times event runner, this is the first time an event has sold out since Bobbie and Orev's last event in 2015, I think? Bobbie may correct me on this, of course.

The priority booking system works as the event runners want it to work. It is a courtesy, not in the constitution, as far as I remember, and event runners have done it differently a couple of times.
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Woody » Mon May 08, 2017 4:17 pm

Thanks for the clarrification
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by A Crew » Mon May 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Thought's, not carefully worded exec post:
Perfect. That's the whole point, to provoke discussion rather than political non-answers.
Woody wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 4:08 pm
On the players ID side of things the problem is that kit can change through an event I myself have gone through 3 different outfits in one event at stargate. We try and have the pre brief to have introductions to help folks recall names.
Whilst this eases some problems the point was mostly in reference to when it gets dark and you can barely see someone, a concrete acknowledgeable call of something visible is very helpful.
Kit changing isn't such a big deal where there's something obviously distinct about the player that can be referenced on the fly.
It's mostly just an issue of how to get the attention of someone not looking at you, when you can make out but not fully identify the person

What I would prefer is that deferment is by exceptional circumstance rather than the norm myself and limiting to a single deferment of a single event wouldn't add in a huge extra workload. Which is option 1 if I understand correctly

Making it transferable. The idea is that YOU have given the effort in it is your reward to claim not for handing off to another person. I personally would be against that option. Which is your option 2 yes?

Option 3 is I believe the current situation with regards priority booking
Pretty much nail on the head, glad I was clear enough.
1: What about a simple flag of "hasn't played since last crewing"?
Also all fair thoughts.

2: If events aren't booked out it's almost a non issue but I had overheard a comment to the effect of "a core set of regulars tend to book up fast, leaving only a few slots for others."
Your comment as I read it is exactly why I suggested not being capable of passing to specific people.
As someone who likes to see change and new faces in group dynamics it would be quite nice to do something like "Use my priority to reserve a space for any new player/someone who applied for last event but it was booked up"

3: Either one of us has misunderstood the other or that practice was not very apparent.


Because they currently stand as "event organiser's discretion", possibly better to add as ideas/best practice guidelines in the "event runner's guide" for now rather than any major change though?

Re: Anonymity:
I just don't much like having my personal name attached to things too often.
I don't mind if people know who I am, I just won't shout it unless needed.
"A Crew" was mostly in reference to someone forgetting my name, pointing at me and calling me "Ummm... Ah... Crew person?" and that I'll likely be mostly crewing.

Edit addition:
Re: No Lottery
Thoughts as to why against it?
The fact it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it shouldn't.
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Woody » Mon May 08, 2017 5:52 pm

I may be a tad tired right now so I will go back and re read the third option and see where I think we are misunderstanding each other but it will be tomorrow night at the earliest before I can make another post. I just don't want you to feel I am ignoring you. I know that we have all (not me and you or even the society I mean we as in society in general) gotten used to the era of modern instant communication and sometimes 24 hours can seem like a life time. I know I have been guilty of it in the past for sure.
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Re: Outsider Observations

Post by Zach_Wayland » Mon May 08, 2017 6:08 pm

Other commentary to follow when I have unpacked my laptop and have an actual keyboard...

Regarding tickets -

This is the first event in a while where it has sold out - and this is at least to some extent in my opinion because it is the AGM.

[Edited to add - As per Sally's post above, this is the first sellout event in two years. Some events have had as few as 18 players!]

Regarding crew priority booking - previously as far as I am aware is that if crew priority is availiable, and you crewed a previous event in a recent past, then the Secretary will provide you with the priority code for that event. In essence, if you crewed the last event you attended you get crew booking for the next event you attend - they do not need to be consecutive events.

I do not believe precedent has been established for transferring crew priority, but it is intended as a reward for the effort and to incentivise players to volunteer to crew, as it guarantees them a space at their next attendable event. As such transferring the priority seems out of odds with that.

However, such a thing is the purview of our elected comittees to review and change, and at the discretion of the event runners if they choose to offer it at all with our current set up.

The current ticket booking set up allows for players to book up to x tickets at once (where x is determined by the event organiser ) and to complete proxy booking if they are unable to be at a computer terminal at the time tickets open and the biletto booking system allows completely unbiased ticket sales.
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